208 replies to this topic

[Carole]

I was kind of in an In Death slump and didn't read Origin right away even though I bought it in hardcover. I read it a week or so ago and then followed immediately with Memory.

Now, we all know Roarke is the ultimate stud. It was almost a joke, how he's slept with just about everyone--anyone else think he probably slept with Nadine and they're just keeping quiet for the sake of Eve not killing her? But at the beginning of Origin, the thought of him sleeping with Lee Lee Ten for one rainy afternoon and never again really bothered me. I felt like Nora was making Roarke a total slut. At least before we had some sense that he had a connection to these women, affection if not love.

Then she totally blew me away at the end of Memory when Roarke tells Summerset how he'd been lonely before Eve.

I still think Roarke was a slut but I'm willing to cut him a little more slack now. Still, I think the joke of Roarke sleeping with every other woman Eve meets is wearing thin, I hope Nora continues to phase it out.

[CrystalAnne1229]

He did not sleep with everyone. There was that girl right at the beginning of the series, and that actress that was some older than he was (the one in Betrayal), or Areena Mansfield. I do think that he had a reasonably active sex life, but I do not get a manslut vibe off it. I'm fairly confident my husband had a fairly active sex life with other chicks before me. And I don't a vibe that he was ever with Nadine. She wishes. The only thing that really counts is the level of fidelity he has now, which is high. Also, let's face it, anyone might look horny next to Eve, who was two steps shy of being completely celibate. We know of one lover when it comes to her.

[Tweetie]

I was giggling like a school girl when I saw the title of this thread.

[Carole]

Also, let's face it, anyone might look horny next to Eve, who was two steps shy of being completely celibate. We know of one lover when it comes to her.

Do you mean Webster? I didn't have the impression he was Eve's first so that's at least two.

And of course Roarke didn't sleep with literally everyone, that's was poetic license. He didn't sleep with Peabody, Mavis, Mira, Mrs. Whitney, Mrs. Feeney, for a start. But come on, doesn't it seem like the women he is acquainted with but didn't sleep with are fewer than the ones mentioned he did sleep with?

[Donna]

If Roarke is a slut, I say "Yea Sluts!"

If his little black book was real, I would sign in.

[ruth]

He didn't sleep with Sharon Deblass either so he has some standards. Who the heck is Lee Lee Ten? refresh my memory.....

[sloane]

But come on, doesn't it seem like the women he is acquainted with but didn't sleep with are fewer than the ones mentioned he did sleep with?

I agree. He clearly made the rounds through the beautiful/charming set. Nora's set-up here is like the devilishly handsome rake in an historical romance: The gorgeous, charming, wealthy guy is attractive to all manner of women and takes full advantage of that fact. But I think we also get the sense, as was mentioned above, that they weren't love interests. He was looking for something more substantial, and enjoyed the companionship of an assortment of beautiful partners while looking for it.

Eve, on the other hand, is set up a bit like a traditional historical romance heroine (which also plays on the guy-slut/girl-slut double standard). She is, despite the trauma of her youth, very pure of heart and, relative to Roarke, practically virginal. She's honest and has integrity, and works diligently at her calling. (In a Regency, she'd have been a chick-Napoleonic spy or one of those Welfare Society patronesses).

Take these traits plus her "sexy, fierce-eyed face" (says Webster) and intensity in work, and what an interesting combination for Roarke...

[Blue]

Wow, you nailed it exactly Sloane! I was just going to post something far less coherent on similar lines that Roarke's sex life pre Eve definitely has all the hallmarks of the traditional romance hero.

I'd also like to add Lee Lee 10, huh? I think in the books when it comes to Roarke's past we're supposed to take our cue from Eve who is almost never ruffled by Roarke's ex lovers- the sole exception so far being Jenny who Roarke did feel affection for at least.

It probably sounds weird but I think Roarke being such a ladies man in the past is deliberate for Nora. If he hadn't had his pick of the beautiful and sophisticated maybe we wouldn't have such a strong certainty that Eve is his only love, because if he had been more shall we say restrained? then perhaps we would always wonder if he would eventually move on to someone more classically his type.

[sloane]

It probably sounds weird but I think Roarke being such a ladies man in the past is deliberate for Nora. If he hadn't had his pick of the beautiful and sophisticated maybe we wouldn't have such a strong certainty that Eve is his only love, because if he had been more shall we say restrained? then perhaps we would always wonder if he would eventually move on to someone more classically his type.

Oooh, good point. We'd also miss out on all the plot points that relate to how Eve "fails to live up" to his previous companions. Think Summerset's initial concerns that she isn't good enough, her awkwardness in playing corporate wife, and the fact that her fellow boys in blue get a kick out of harassing her about him.

I think it also speaks to Roarke that the only way he could be sure he'd found someone who didn't want him for his money or looks was to find someone for whom the money and looks were disconcerting, and who was initially hesistant to be with him...

[Ms Joy]

I agree with Sloan.
Yes, he did take "full advantage" that women found him attractive. Come on -- he's a GUY! It doesn't bother me in the least that he made the rounds.

Let's define "male slut". First off, I consider "male slut" and "man whore" to be about the same thing. Roarke was never in this category. Never. Even when he was just a poor struggling lad in Ireland.

To me, a guy who views women as objects to be conquered and just wants to put another notch on his bedpost -- he is a slut. He does not care how the woman feels, so long as he gets what he wants. He'll lie, cheat, and then be gone as soon as he as attained his goal. He loves nobody but himself.

There are other guys who are also quite active sexually, but I would not define them as sluts. These are guys who genuinely love women -- they love women of all shapes, sizes, ages, races -- they truly think that women are the most wonderful invention in the world, and they treat their girls like absolute queens. They genuinely care, and are THERE for their ladies, both past and present. These guys are sweet even to little old ladies. They treat their moms wonderfully. Women flock to these guys, because they can sense the love that is inside them. Roarke is in this category. Watch how he treats ALL women in the stories -- always with charm and sweetness.

To me, it's not the number of people somebody has slept with that makes them a slut. It's their ATTITUDE towards the people they've slept with. And of all the women in Roarke's past, not once have we seen a woman who regrets having slept with him. He -- apparently -- treated them all honestly, fairly, and very sweetly.

So where's the complaint?

[jizabel9]

I do not actually see Roarke as a slut but on the other hand one thing that i do not like is that he has slept with so many women and eve has slept practically with no one. i do not know why but i would like to know that eve have had her fair share of love life and i think that the fact that a man as roarke is know only with one women emphasizes more how big is his love towards eve and how this love has changed him.

[Rusty]

To me, it's not the number of people somebody has slept with that makes them a slut. It's their ATTITUDE towards the people they've slept with. And of all the women in Roarke's past, not once have we seen a woman who regrets having slept with him. He -- apparently -- treated them all honestly, fairly, and very sweetly.

So where's the complaint?

That says it so perfectly. If he hadn't met and known otehr woman, he wouldn't have the experience needed to love and express that love for Eve as he does. As my Dad used to say, "you have to play the game to know the score."

Rusty

[CrystalAnne1229]

I do not actually see Roarke as a slut but on the other hand one thing that i do not like is that he has slept with so many women and eve has slept practically with no one. i do not know why but i would like to know that eve have had her fair share of love life and i think that the fact that a man as roarke is know only with one women emphasizes more how big is his love towards eve and how this love has changed him.

I doubt Eve lacked for opportunity. She just was not that interested. Roarke, on the other hand, was interested and enjoyed women.

[APL]

Wow, yeah. I love the title. Listen, the fact that he slept with so many women might be a testament to the fact that he was lonely. He didn't have a steady "girlfriend" if you will, as far as we know. I think it's actually very funny when they mention his "slutty" past.

[TheSneezingLobster]

I agree with Ms. Joy. IMHO, a male slut is one of those himbos that pop up on trash talk shows bragging about how he banged his girlfriend and her sister/mother/grandmother/daughter/best friends, etc ad nauseum.

Roarke is a healthy male with a healthy libido; however, he does not hop in the sack with everyone in the known universe. I believe his previous relationships were purely physical. Eve is the only one to whom he has bared his soul.

Eve also has a healthy libido but probably supressed it by directing all her energies toward her career. Now that Roarke has awakened her feelings, she's not afraid to share her sexuality with her soul mate, or even initiate it.

There are huge chunks of the Lieutenant's life that we know nothing about. Nowhere does it say that Webster was her only lover. She's led a rather solitary life but was not celibate.

Don't forget that western society still has a double standard, even in 2059! Would you like Eve as much if she had slept with 50 or 100 different guys?????

Sneezy

[KGrove]

The title of this thread really caught my eye too.

I'm not always ssure about Roarke. Sometimes when I read I'll think "Man, Roarke is a real slut." But other times I think "Well...he's just a normal guy."

And while we know it doesn't bother Eve (because instead of being one of many, she's the only) I do think that after a while Eve is going to get tired of all these old girlfriends popping up and annoyed at having people continually ask her if she's "okay with it".

I want to see some more of Eve's old lovers turn up and see how Roarke handles it.

[DallasLTEvefan]

I think Roarke cared for the women he slept to certain point (not as much as Eve) i don't really think he a slut..

[AJ]

Has anyone actually done a count of women we're SURE Roarke slept with? I mean actually HAD SEX WITH and didn't just date casually? Do we even know that number, or we all just assuming?

AJ

[Amanda]

i wouldnt consider him a slut, but of course most wouldnt put men into the slut catagory. I would say a slut is when you sleep around with care at all for the other person. Roarke doesnt love his past lovers but he always cared about them.

[Ms Joy]

Has anyone actually done a count of women we're SURE Roarke slept with? I mean actually HAD SEX WITH and didn't just date casually? Do we even know that number, or we all just assuming?
AJ

This sounds like a fun thing to research. Maybe we could set up a chart somewhere, listing every book (in chronological order) and then every woman mentioned in each book that he slept with. We'd have to break it down further into categories of women that we know he definitely slept with, and women that we suspect he slept with. As long as we're researching this, we might as well list all the women (by book) who WANTED to sleep with him but didn't.

Some of you have commented that it appears Eve did not have very many lovers. I think this is true. I think the reason she didn't have many is because up until she met Roarke, she did not know -- did not WANT to know -- how to completely surrender and let go. One of the books mentions that for her, sex was just a "little pop". She never experienced the earth-shattering explosion until Roarke took it upon himself to educate her. Remember how she struggled to NOT let go the first time they were together? Of course, Roarke, with his great lovemaking skills, (yum!) was able to overcome THAT little problem and she came completely undone.

Remember also, what her father did to her. I know that at the beginning of the series, she did not remember much about her past, but some part of her subconscious certainly remembered in bitter detail, and I think this made her feel ambivalent about sex. On the one hand, she was a healthy woman, so she had healthy responses physically. But emotionally, I think a part of her always drew back, and as a result, she tended to live a pretty chaste life.

Also -- I don't agree that "it was just physical" for Roarke with his previous lovers. He's a loving, caring man, and so I think there was always a certain amount of involvement on his part. I'm sure he cared about his lovers, and was tender and generous with them. He just didn't feel that overwhelming, uncontrollable passion that he had for Eve. I don't think he understood what he was missing, until Eve came along and rocked his world.

One of the things that I think a lot of us liked was the fact that Roarke said the "L" word before Eve did. So often, we are given the impression that most guys cringe and squirm, and women have to practically BEG to hear them say "I love you". I like the way Nora turned this around in the ID books, so that Roarke nearly had to beg Eve to say it. Eve was the one who was so uncomfortable about it, whereas Roarke seemed to acknowledge and even surrender to his own feelings long before Eve did. He was uncomfortable and leery about it at first, but he adjusted far more quickly than Eve did.

What a lovely topic this is, on the eve of Valentine's Day. Sigh.