54 replies to this topic

[AJ]

Saw this review on Dear Author today:

http://dearauthor.co...kristen-ashley/

The reviewer fully admits that this authors writing is "unpolished–convoluted sentences, typos galore, some meandering narrative, hard-to-follow dialogue."

Now....this isn't just a preference thing. The writing is bad. Period. Yet, just as with "50 Shades" that we've talked about ad nauseum, here's another author and series where even people who love the books say the writing is bad, yet, they were published just as they are, typos and all.

Not only that, but if you read the review, the hero is clearly an a-hole....but we're supposed to see past that to his "heart of gold." Maybe it's just me, but I'm not a big fan of that....a-hole with a heart of gold crap.

Plus...ok, I do cuss some. I know some people cuss a lot. But, it's just not what I want from my romance heroes...an inordinate amount of cussing.

Am I getting old or something? Is this the future of the romance novel? If so, it just makes me sad.

AJ

[ruth]

Thanks. Doesn't do a whole lot for me. If you're getting old, I'm definitely already there. Having said that - cussing doesn't bother me a whole lot anymore - at least in my reading - blame fanfic for that one. Bad Ass/Asshole (is there a difference?) heroes with a heart of gold do absolutely nothing for me. Typos galore would immediately turn me off if nothing else does. I do know however who I'd recommend Kristen Ashley to if she hasn't already discovered her that is.

[Carole]

OMG. I didn't make it through the first excerpt. I see a lot of re-reading in my future if this is what new books are going to be like.

[MzShel]

I have a nasty habit of tossing out books where the hero is a jerk. Just from what little I read, this guy is a jerk and would make me toss the book.
I'm not saying the guy has to be some sensitive, mushy, sissy-boy. But he does have to treat a woman with respect.
If you guys are feeling old, I'm right there with you.

[AJ]

I know there are personal preferences, but there should just be some things that aren't ok. Like:

“What were you thinking?” Tack kind of repeated.

I yanked at his hand at my throat which, from the minute he placed it there to now was holding me but it was just like how I hit the wall. Not gentle. Not hard.

What it was, was immovable.

“Let me go,” I said yet again.

Ok, first of all "...Tach kind of repeated"? Did he or did he not repeat? He can't "kind of" repeat. But that's neither here nor there.

The HERO of this book grabs the heroine....the woman he supposedly loves....by the throat and holds her up against a wall.

That's not ok. I can't imagine how it could be ok for ANYONE.

The reviewer says in the comments of the review:

Right after this excerpt, she gets right back in his face and gets on him for getting physical with her, even that amount. To me, it’s a little like that “you’re so scared you shake the hell out of your kid, and then hug them and then shake the hell out of them again” moment you can have, so I didn’t see it as him getting abusive with her, but she does go toe to toe with him about how he acts. Then hand on the throat thing actually gets an entire explanation from him that I wasn’t expecting, but worked for me. It might not work for everyone, I don’t know.

Ok. Yes, I have had moments where I've been angry at my kid, but I would never "shake the hell out of" her. I'd wonder if a parent needs serious anger management classes if they're shaking the hell out of their kid. Yes, it's abusive. Grabbing someone by the throat is also abusive. How do you not see this as abusive??

My kid is now 21 years old. So....going by this book, if she told me her boyfriend grabbed her by the throat and yelled at her, BUT she called him on it, and he had an excuse for his behavior, I can't imagine myself going "Oh! Well, golly....as long as you called him on it, and he had some excuse, then it's ok. You did deserve it afterall, for putting yourself in danger."

Uh. No.

It's just too reminiscent of a typical battered woman. "Well, I DID do something stupid, so it WAS my fault he grabbed me by the throat. I did tell him that I didn't like that, and he and an explanation, so, it's ok." NO! It isn't! Get out of that relationship NOW!

It just blows me away that people write/read this stuff and dismiss it as ok. They read this for recreation, and then LOVE it so much they recommend that other women read it for recreation.



I will never understand...


AJ

[Klistiny]

Okay, I know I'm a young'n here, but if you all feel old, then so do I. I can't believe that was a legitimate book review, let me rephrase- a legitimate positive book review. We've got cussing in In Death, we've got aggression, and we have definite passion. Differences-if Roarke ever had Eve by the throat, she would knock him on his ass, not say get off me, or whatever that other girl said. I'm pretty sure Roarke knew the names of most, if not all, the women he's been with, and has treated them with decency. Roarke and Eve love each other-it's not just sex for the sake of a "romance". (That's why I stopped reading Harlequins as a teenager-all the same, and a lot of forced romance.)

For that matter, if my husband ever treated me the way that so called "hero" did, if I didn't kill him, I'd definitely divorce his sorry ass. And typos? If you're an author, you better have your grammar correct and your writing coherent. Those exerpts were a nightmare to read.

[Joe]

No need to understand, because it's mind-bogglingly stupid.

Look, Nora Roberts (and others) has been writing alpha, strong, "tough guys" for years, and yes, some of them can be a-holes. Not ONE of them is abusive to anyone, let alone the heroine of the story. It's possible to write a guy who can be an a-hole, but is mostly a very good guy rather than one who is an a-hole to the core whom the heroine has to "redeem". Sorry ladies, an a-hole is an a-hole, a Tiger never changes his stripes, etc. etc. It's more than possible to write a strong, hardcore, rough and tumble, jaded, jerk of a guy, and still make him believable and REAL without crossing the boundaries into abuse and misogyny.

I know we're staying away from any discussion of 50 Shades, and it's not my intention to make this a discussion of those books. However, the idea that the "new" romantic hero, even a "tough guy" type, is going to be the "Christian Grey" type, well? I'll give that a pass. I won't be reading that crap, ever, even in a book that isn't supposed to be "sort of like" 50 Shades. I don't have a problem with S&M and all that between consenting adults, and I'm sure it can even be fun for those who "dabble". Those types of heroes have been on the "fringe" of romance for a long time, but they've never gone mainstream until now. To make that type of "hero" the "standard" in romance???

I blame "women's media" for this. There are several talk shows aimed at women who have "talked up" the 50 Shades books, and how "great" they are. Shari Sheppard (whom I normally love and have a lot of respect for) can't stop gushing about them on "The View". So not only do we have the people who are "protesting" these books getting attention, and making people want to read them, we have talk show hosts who love them and keep promoting them. They've had EL James on "The View" twice for craps sake. I admit that I was annoyed enough that they have Danielle Steele on the show regularly, but I don't mind that all that much because she's a well known author who has been writing in the romance genre very well....she's a good writer, her books just aren't my bag... for years. Plus, she's friends with Barbara. But why not bring someone like Nora on? Someone who understands and loves the romance genre. She's only the bestselling romance author of all time! Yet, she's ignored by the "women's media". I can't believe that I'm the only woman (or man, for that matter, because why generalize?) who gets annoyed when other "romance" authors are interviewed ad nauseum or because their books suddenly cause a "stir". Nora's eloquent in interviews, and I think she could help people who aren't "readers" understand the appeal of the actual romance genre. Not the "rogue" genre that's so popular right now. I'm just sayin'.

As for the bad writing? Hell, we've dealt with this for years. There have been several "best selling" authors who can't write themselves out of a paper bag. They write one GOOD book (complete with bad grammar and terrible syntax and run on sentences and the whole shot, and whatever, but it has a good story. HELLO Stephanie Meyer!), and all of a sudden they're a phenomenon. Heck, we jab at Nora all the time HERE for "little mistakes", as do fans of other really good authors on fan sites devoted to them. Thing is, there is a HUGE difference between bad writing, and a good author making mistakes. And I think that's what pisses us off. We get annoyed enough when GOOD authors make mistakes, and then we see BAD authors being touted as "SO GREAT!!!!" And it sends us through the roof. If that makes sense.

So again, AJ, no need to understand. None of us do. And I'm with Carole, I'll be doing a LOT of re-reads if this is going to be the "trend".

[IDFAN]

After reading all of your comments, i decided to save myself the pain of reading the excerpt. Remember when Harlequin Romances were about the Arab Sheik kidnapping the virgin white woman and making her his wife by forcing her to have sex with him? And of course she grew to like it. I even read one where he put on a gold manacle around her ankle to mark her as his. Fast forward 30+ years and I read authors like Nora Roberts, Jayne Ann Krentz, Janet Evanovich etc. Even when the guy is displaying his 'jack ass' gene, he doesn't abuse/disrespect the woman. And the woman's response to the jack ass gene isn't to melt in his arms and beg for more, it's to kick him in the balls and tell him to change his behavior or get the hell out of 'HER' house/life/company/etc. So, we have evolved, there is all sorts of literary proof, so where are these caveman mentality authors and readers coming from? Please go crawl back into the primordial ooze and continue to evolve before joining us in the new liberated world where men and women are equal partners.

[Joe]

That's exactly it, Lelani. It's stupid. And pointless. We should ALL be done with it!

[WindSeeker]

"Kind of repeated...." I just have to say, what the hell does that mean, anyway?

Its like, "I kind of shot the guy" but maybe not, I mean my finger was on the trigger, but I didn't mean to shoot him, I just kinda did. So, like, I totally didn't kinda sorta shoot the guy who just choked me.

Sorry, I had to laugh at that

I um, kind of, think this trend may be the new 21st century barbarian dragging the hapless wench off to his man cave to ravish. At least now we have sensible heros and heroines to look to when too many books have stupid or unrealistic ones

[AJ]

After reading all of your comments, i decided to save myself the pain of reading the excerpt.

oh, but if you don't read the exerpts, you don't really understand the true horror of it. Here's one small quote from the "hero" that was posted as an example of why people SHOULD read the book:

'You’re gonna be where I want you to be, you’re gonna do what I want you to do and you’re gonna listen to what I have to say and if you don’t do it, I’ll find a way to make you do it. That scares you, you gotta learn to get over it and you’ll learn not to be scared because I’d rather cut off my own arm than ever hurt you. But you fucked up, baby. You showed me somethin’ I want and I get what I want and I do what I gotta do to get it. So this needs to sink in right fuckin’ now, Tyra. You… are… stuck. Find some way to deal with it and my advice would be, don’t fight it. You fight it, I’ll take you on. That’s a guarantee. Do you understand me?

Awwww...how sweet. I'm gonna cry....



And people were reading this and saying, "I'M BUYING IT!!!"

Remember when Harlequin Romances were about the Arab Sheik kidnapping the virgin white woman and making her his wife by forcing her to have sex with him? And of course she grew to like it. I even read one where he put on a gold manacle around her ankle to mark her as his.

Someone did mention that and asked if we weren't going backwards, but clearly, not everyone agrees.

I wish they did.

On the other hand....modify that quote a little, and it could be Roarke....so....maybe I'm being hypocritical?

AJ

[Joe]

Never mind...

[IDFAN]

After reading all of your comments, i decided to save myself the pain of reading the excerpt.

oh, but if you don't read the exerpts, you don't really understand the true horror of it. Here's one small quote from the "hero" that was posted as an example of why people SHOULD read the book:

'You’re gonna be where I want you to be, you’re gonna do what I want you to do and you’re gonna listen to what I have to say and if you don’t do it, I’ll find a way to make you do it. That scares you, you gotta learn to get over it and you’ll learn not to be scared because I’d rather cut off my own arm than ever hurt you. But you fucked up, baby. You showed me somethin’ I want and I get what I want and I do what I gotta do to get it. So this needs to sink in right fuckin’ now, Tyra. You… are… stuck. Find some way to deal with it and my advice would be, don’t fight it. You fight it, I’ll take you on. That’s a guarantee. Do you understand me?

Awwww...how sweet. I'm gonna cry....



And people were reading this and saying, "I'M BUYING IT!!!"

Remember when Harlequin Romances were about the Arab Sheik kidnapping the virgin white woman and making her his wife by forcing her to have sex with him? And of course she grew to like it. I even read one where he put on a gold manacle around her ankle to mark her as his.

Someone did mention that and asked if we weren't going backwards, but clearly, not everyone agrees.

I wish they did.

On the other hand....modify that quote a little, and it could be Roarke....so....maybe I'm being hypocritical?

AJ

Actually, I did go ahead and read some of it. I really liked the part where he was saying:

I need to stay sharp. I do not need to be thinkin’ about your sweet mouth wrapped around my cock or my dick buried in your tight, wet pussy, which is all I wanna think about. When I say I gotta stay sharp, baby, I mean, I don’t, I get dead and when I say that, I mean the not breathin’ anymore variety. You don’t fit into all the shit that’s swirlin’ in my life right now unless I can make you fit. That’s all I got to give you and that’s all you’re gonna get. And you’re gonna take what I have to give, Red.

Ahhhh..... so romantic. And this is her employer saying this to her. Sexual harassment? No, uh uh, not at all. Geez, where can I find me one of these?

[ruth]

From someone who still reads Harlequins once in awhile, let's not throw Harlequins totally into the trash. I don't know which Harlequins you were reading Lelani, but obviously not the ones I was. I graduated from Barbara Cartland ( and there is truly mindless romance, poor helpless female) to Harlequin Temptations (which no longer exist - they became Blaze which I hate - , Harlequin American Romance, and Harlequin Superromance. The rest I ignore. I also read Danielle Steel and have to say that lately she's gotten better but will never rise up to Nora's quality. Your last quote AJ sounds like Christian Gray - like maybe Kristen Ashley was/is a Master of the Universe/Fifty Shades fan (god help us all). Maybe its too much of a coincidence but did anyone catch the significance of her name (Kristen as in Kristen Stewart and Ashley as in Ashley Greene?) On the other hand, maybe I've been on Twilighted too long because her name sounds like a fanfic author name.

[AJ]

I'm thinking that this particular book is more "Sons of Anarchy" fan fic, if there is such a thing.

AJ

[ruth]

I had to go check ff.net before I flapped my jaw. Yes there are 1410 fanfic stories on Sons of Anarchy.

[AJ]

I had to go check ff.net before I flapped my jaw. Yes there are 1410 fanfic stories on Sons of Anarchy.

AJ

[Joe]

Again...never mind.

[ruth]

What's with all the "never minds" tonight?

[Jackieville]

Ugh!!!!!!!!!!